Comments on: Learning for the 21st Century http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/ from Jay Cross and Internet Time Group Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:02:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: 25 Top Learning & Development Posts of 2009 | BRYANT NIELSON'S BLOG ON TRAINING http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-3999 25 Top Learning & Development Posts of 2009 | BRYANT NIELSON'S BLOG ON TRAINING Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:29:00 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-3999 [...] Learning for the 21st Century [...] [...] Learning for the 21st Century [...]

]]> By: admin http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1942 admin Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:48:57 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1942 David, the 200x factor is from a hiring manager at Google. David, the 200x factor is from a hiring manager at Google.

]]> By: David Austin http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1810 David Austin Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:52:12 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1810 Jay, I missed the citation regarding an exemplary knowledge worker being more than 200x productive. That's a big number and I'm researching statistics in this area. Thanks, David Jay, I missed the citation regarding an exemplary knowledge worker being more than 200x productive. That’s a big number and I’m researching statistics in this area. Thanks, David

]]> By: Jay Cross http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1382 Jay Cross Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:07:12 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1382 Ah, Peter, as always, you present an interesting challenge. Great point about others telling us what our needs are. Countering this is the democratizing power of communications networks. Famously, networks subvert hierarchy. We see it in today's youth; I can feel it spreading. As for replacing training with one course followed by participation in communities of practice, the economic cataclysm may provide the opportunity to put that into practice. Eric, I agree that the answer comes from connections with others. Of course, that's the community Peter is talking about. Clark, we agree on the value of optimizing the architecture. I take Peter's "radical" suggestion of exploring one's learning as helping learners learn to learn instead of teaching them to. It's undoubtedly a mix of the two. Jason, I don't think a learnscape pre-supposes technology at all, but that doesn't get to your core question of workers who are actively disengaged. Even worse than those who want to get in and get out are those who want to throw a wrench into the works and do some damage before they leave. I am stymied by that one. Hence, I'll admit that I abandon them. I also struggle with what to do with managers who act as if the future will never arrive. I realize that we inherit this tendency to live only for the moment from ancestors who lived in caves but you'd think the culture Peter brings up would push us to consider about the future of our workers, our businesses, ourselves, and the planet we inhabit, but often it doesn't work that way at all. Ah, Peter, as always, you present an interesting challenge. Great point about others telling us what our needs are. Countering this is the democratizing power of communications networks. Famously, networks subvert hierarchy. We see it in today’s youth; I can feel it spreading. As for replacing training with one course followed by participation in communities of practice, the economic cataclysm may provide the opportunity to put that into practice.

Eric, I agree that the answer comes from connections with others. Of course, that’s the community Peter is talking about.

Clark, we agree on the value of optimizing the architecture. I take Peter’s “radical” suggestion of exploring one’s learning as helping learners learn to learn instead of teaching them to. It’s undoubtedly a mix of the two.

Jason, I don’t think a learnscape pre-supposes technology at all, but that doesn’t get to your core question of workers who are actively disengaged. Even worse than those who want to get in and get out are those who want to throw a wrench into the works and do some damage before they leave. I am stymied by that one. Hence, I’ll admit that I abandon them.

I also struggle with what to do with managers who act as if the future will never arrive. I realize that we inherit this tendency to live only for the moment from ancestors who lived in caves but you’d think the culture Peter brings up would push us to consider about the future of our workers, our businesses, ourselves, and the planet we inhabit, but often it doesn’t work that way at all.

]]> By: Jay Cross http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1381 Jay Cross Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:37:54 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1381 Partial feeds. I feel so lame. Harold and Tony both nailed me on this. It took me nearly an hour to find the switch in WordPress to cut on full feeds. Partial feeds. I feel so lame. Harold and Tony both nailed me on this. It took me nearly an hour to find the switch in WordPress to cut on full feeds.

]]> By: Jason http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1388 Jason Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:58:47 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1388 Sorry to come off as a bit of a naysayer, but unfortunately, all of this assumes a learner who is motivated to...well... learn! In the reality of a lot of workplaces - especially retail, call centres, etc - the motivation is to get in, get out, & collect a paycheque. At that point, is a structured learnscape tool even valid in a setting where less than 5% are going to pursue any kind of knowledge in a self-directed way - it's certainly a tough sell to the C-suite who are know deep down inside the true depth of their employees' disengagement - but still demand an increase in productivity. Is it possible to create a learnscape model that is not technology driven for a setting - i.e. retail - where most learners are never in front of a computer - or certainly not one capable of running anything more complicated than a point-of-sale system. And please don't say that learners could use their mobile devices! Canadian cell phone providers now charge for incoming text messages - to say nothing of how difficult it would be to convince your average "Esprit" retail clerk to sign up for text messages about how to increase her Units Per Transaction (UPT's)! I would love to hear feedback on how you would structure a learnscape that was not only couldn't lever technology, but basically couldn't use it at all? Ok, that came across as WAY more bitter than I intended it to, but it's the reality that many trainers face - and as I really respect all three of your opinions, I would really value your feedback. Sorry to come off as a bit of a naysayer, but unfortunately, all of this assumes a learner who is motivated to…well… learn! In the reality of a lot of workplaces – especially retail, call centres, etc – the motivation is to get in, get out, & collect a paycheque.

At that point, is a structured learnscape tool even valid in a setting where less than 5% are going to pursue any kind of knowledge in a self-directed way – it’s certainly a tough sell to the C-suite who are know deep down inside the true depth of their employees’ disengagement – but still demand an increase in productivity.

Is it possible to create a learnscape model that is not technology driven for a setting – i.e. retail – where most learners are never in front of a computer – or certainly not one capable of running anything more complicated than a point-of-sale system.

And please don’t say that learners could use their mobile devices! Canadian cell phone providers now charge for incoming text messages – to say nothing of how difficult it would be to convince your average “Esprit” retail clerk to sign up for text messages about how to increase her Units Per Transaction (UPT’s)!

I would love to hear feedback on how you would structure a learnscape that was not only couldn’t lever technology, but basically couldn’t use it at all?

Ok, that came across as WAY more bitter than I intended it to, but it’s the reality that many trainers face – and as I really respect all three of your opinions, I would really value your feedback.

]]> By: Eric Davidove http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1387 Eric Davidove Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:26:48 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1387 I might not always be able to “recognize” what I need to know or learn. I do usually know when I need help with a work assignment, resolving a client issue, etc. When I reach out to people who I believe are experienced and knowledgeable, I discover what I need to know or learn. I think the connection to people and the discussion with people is the route to discovery. Not necessarily only the results of an assessment or test, my performance review, or other forms of “feedback.” The feedback is helpful - yes - along with my self discovery through collaboration and discussion. I might not always be able to “recognize” what I need to know or learn. I do usually know when I need help with a work assignment, resolving a client issue, etc. When I reach out to people who I believe are experienced and knowledgeable, I discover what I need to know or learn. I think the connection to people and the discussion with people is the route to discovery. Not necessarily only the results of an assessment or test, my performance review, or other forms of “feedback.” The feedback is helpful – yes – along with my self discovery through collaboration and discussion.

]]> By: Clark Quinn http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1386 Clark Quinn Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:55:51 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1386 Several thoughts: while teaching learners to learn is a good thing (and I think that's at least as important as Peter's "know your needs", you need to know how to satisfy them as well), there's still a role for supporting learning, and that's by ensuring that the learnscape is optimal: the role of information architecture on the supply side will be valuable as well. There's still a role for formalizing the informal, I reckon. But providing ways for people to support each other is probably the most valuable investment to make, followed closely by helping them understand what effective learning is. Several thoughts: while teaching learners to learn is a good thing (and I think that’s at least as important as Peter’s “know your needs”, you need to know how to satisfy them as well), there’s still a role for supporting learning, and that’s by ensuring that the learnscape is optimal: the role of information architecture on the supply side will be valuable as well. There’s still a role for formalizing the informal, I reckon. But providing ways for people to support each other is probably the most valuable investment to make, followed closely by helping them understand what effective learning is.

]]> By: Learning for the 21st Century | weiterbildungsblog http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1383 Learning for the 21st Century | weiterbildungsblog Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:40:50 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1383 [...] “Industrial age workers created value in factories. Where do knowledge workers create value? I will call the knowledge-age factory floor a learnscape. Learnscapes are the platforms where knowledge workers collaborate, solve problems, converse, share ideas, brainstorm, learn, explain, communicate, conceptualise, tell stories, help one another, teach, serve customers, keep up to date, forge partnerships, build communities, and distribute information. Learnscapes define where and how modern work is performed. Training programs are events; learnscapes are longterm processes.” Jay Cross, Informal Learning Blog, 17. Dezember 2008 [...] [...] “Industrial age workers created value in factories. Where do knowledge workers create value? I will call the knowledge-age factory floor a learnscape. Learnscapes are the platforms where knowledge workers collaborate, solve problems, converse, share ideas, brainstorm, learn, explain, communicate, conceptualise, tell stories, help one another, teach, serve customers, keep up to date, forge partnerships, build communities, and distribute information. Learnscapes define where and how modern work is performed. Training programs are events; learnscapes are longterm processes.” Jay Cross, Informal Learning Blog, 17. Dezember 2008 [...]

]]> By: Bob Harrison http://www.informl.com/2008/12/17/learning-for-the-21st-century/comment-page-1/#comment-1384 Bob Harrison Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:21:25 +0000 http://informl.com/?p=1543#comment-1384 Spot on Jay...and here in Manchester we are struggling with this issue as we attempt to build schools for the future as part of the UK Government initiative to rebuild the secondary school estate. We are desperate to build for learning and not schooling but it is very challenging. http://future.ncsl.org.uk/ Spot on Jay…and here in Manchester we are struggling with this issue as we attempt to build schools for the future as part of the UK Government initiative to rebuild the secondary school estate. We are desperate to build for learning and not schooling but it is very challenging.
http://future.ncsl.org.uk/

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